Interview with John Kittredge Click for bio
John Kittredge
Topics:
JK and CH: *Brief Exchange about Consent*
CH: How did you feel about the 1960's? When you look back now what sort of things come to mind?
JK: Well there was a lot going on, a lot of conflict. The Vietnam War had grown significantly. The resnetnment the Protests against it. Socially, people had made the discintion between War and Peace. Peace at home and soldiers at war. It was a crazy time. I had been partying and doing a lot of crazy stuff.
CH: Do you still see it like this? I know in history its seen as a crazy time, but personally at the time you saw it the same way?
JK: I don't see I-- I think life sometimes evolved based on the cirumstances, the events. The war, The Vietnam War did not end until 1975. And a lot of people had died protesting the war. A lot of colleges, things like that. Young people like myself, I joined the military volunentarily but there was a lot more people who were afraid of war. They did not want to participate in it. And did not believe in that particular war for sure. It was just a different time. Very different than WW2 or the Korean war. Back then our country itself was more behind it. Vietnam was awful. Even guys like me that were coming home much after the war still got spit on and called "baby killers" and things like that. That resentment, that anger. The 60's were fun though, none of the technoligies we have now were avaliable. No cellphones or anything like that at our level. Technology was much different in those days I rode a bike and delivered newspapers door to door and you don't really do that anymore.
CH: Yeah. What else do you feel like is different? Other than just cultural changes?
JK: I would say the food has changed. The concept of chains of places, for example I worked at the thirteenth Mcdonalds in the country- in Los Angeles. That chain was new. A hamburger was 29 cents.
CH: Oh, wow. I guess another thing just kind of a left turn on you, it is not as deep neccesarily as the other questions but what was the social life like back then? What was dating like? Is it different than it would be today?
JK: So much of that depended on how old you were. And whether or not you had a car. We had public transportation, we had busses but it was not really considered a way to date somebody. It was not like "Hey, I will pick you up and we will take the buss into town". (Laughter)
CH: Yeah I get that (Laughter).
JK: In the city you learned to ride your bike or you drove. So, really dating didn't start as much until you were actually able to drive. Once you were 16 then you could get a license. If somebody was good enough to lend you their car then you could go out. Very structured though. Very formal. But once you go to college its much different. I was underage then, in 1969 8th grade. So my teen years, my crazier years bled into the 70's.
CH: Ok, and do you feel like the cultures of the 60's and 70's were similar? Or did they change at all?
JK: Could you repeat that please?
CH: Oh, I am sorry, I said was the culture of the 60's or 70's different. Anything like that?
JK: Well, One of the things I see is the changes to music and the general cultural patterns. The music that we'd listen to, the instruaments. the styles very very different. The difference in the genres between then and now are astounding. There was Elvis in the 50's and a lot of other artists really built on that style. He was often imitated, seldom duplicated. The music groups(in the 70's) were more about harmonies and singing abilities as opposed to mass produced music like we see today. There is a lot of excpectation that it is all electronic. Back then it was all actual live music, played by musicans. We had those kinds of things and it reflected our culture and thoughts. That was our culture. That remains the same. The music that you hear today is a reflection of today, the music you heard than was a reflection of those days. They were songs about peace and against war.
CH: Sorry to interupt. But do you feel some of that had to do with scars from Vietnam from the 1960's?
JK: Oh yeah. Most of the Major Music trends from that period had to do with that war. Absolutely. So many songs and groups that came out of that era were. The Doors for example, Creedence Clear Water Revival was a big one, Skynrd(Lynrd Skynrd). Southern rock kind of bands, Marshall Tucker. Bob Seager guys that went back all the bands from that era. I would say Crosby Stills and Nash was there too- they had all kind of done their own things as independent as well. I would say they had the most to say about that. Neil Young was another Anti-War person. He was against the protests. You know it's the 60's Martin Luther King was conducting march cause segragation was an issue. Your Aunt Marie was pulled out of school because mom didn't want her attending an integrated school things like that. It was a black and white issue. We knew it. When we were growing up there was a lot of conflict. Racial conflict. That is another underlying thing, it was more prevalant in the South of the United States than California(where he lived at the time). Did not really have as much impact. Marie and I didn't know any of that we were not hateful, we just understood they were different colors than us. It was not a dislike or a hate, we just accepted that they were different.
CH: Did it feel elevated in LA?
JK: I thought it was pretty cool. They said you could go to the beach in the morning, go to Disneyland in the afternoon, and got to the mountains at night, all on one tank of gas.
CH: Yeah, I guess that makes sense. A little bit more of what I was getting at was- did you notice any of the social changes at the time? Desegragation that sort of thing? Did it mean anything to you at the time? Did you care? Not Care?
JK: I didn't notice it at the time, I think I was still too young to really understand or realize what it was. We used to make the comment that my dad wanted to be the last white guy out of Reseda. (This) because homes were selling that was the trend in those days. If a black family moved in, that whole street was up for sale. White people would move out and black people would move in. We saw with our neighborhood thats why dad wanted to be the last white guy in LA we kept thinking that they would come back, that white people would move back in and they just never did. They would move South they would move to Orange County, that was a big move in those days. But there was not as much problems between the other races- a lot of Mexican people, Spanish people around. It was not really a problem. By in large the growunps did more, we were kids. The grownups had jobs paying money to feed their families it became more about class(sophfistication). It did not matter if you were a white drunk driver or a black drunk drive, you were a drunk driver. But I don't really remember a lot of hatred.
CH: Sorry, I did not catch that last part could you repeat it?
JK: Yeah, I don't think people really looked at it that way with that kind of hatred. Not a lot of hatred- just nice people and not nice people.
CH: I was just going to ask, do you think it had to do generationaly? Perhaps your parents generation cared more? And a lot of people in your generation growing up in the 60's and 70's were more apathetic is that a safe assumption?
JK: You know, you saying that just kind of reminded me of what mom used to say. It should not matter if you are a preist or a prositute you should talk to and be nice to everybody. Dosen't matter if they are off the street or from Harvard. (If they) had been to prison, any of those kinds of things. The generation that came my age and lower was one of acceptance. I think. I don't judge people, it has to do with how they act, how they treat people. How do they feel? Are thet nice to you? Are they cordial? I had my run ins with different people growing up, but it was never about race.
CH: I guess that makes a lot of sense having that generation be that way. My follow up to that would be, did you expirence a lot of different cultures in the military?People from all over the country? Not neccsarily racially.
JK: I saw a different type of people from different parts of the country. And that is the part that I always noticied. There was a culture in the South, or if you were the Midwest, things like that. They were different based on where they came from. Not so much their color, but that played some part of it. A lot of Southern People were very predujuice. Both black and white. So, there is always a way to start a relationship where when a white guy meets a black guy from California, he is thinking of him as a black guy from his culture. He may treat him or talk to him that way. "Boy whatcha doin" stuff like that. It was more of that, they felt like they had a right to treat people some type of way. (This) because of where they had come from. And what the military teaches you is- Green. Nobody is another color once you put that uniform on. And that's kind of how you had to go about it, versus when they are coming from different cultures they are trying to parade that. "Hey I'm a big strong country boy". My budy from Maine he just wanted to hunt,fish, he was an outdoorsman who could survive on a survival trip and put on weight!(Laughter) They came back and measured him, because bottom line was they(the Army) had located us about 300 yards from where we lived. We came back and had pizza and beer. That was the idea. Him and I are still close, we went to each other's weddings. I called him just last week.
CH: That is, I think something to be admired about the military- the succesful mix of cultres to try to accomplish what the mission is.
JK: Yeah, the military does not stand for crap like that. They'll be prejuidce against slackers. Against the guy with the tiny heart, the guy who can't clean his weapon. In fact, I think in today's world it is an advantage to have those different angles, those different cultures. When I made friends with people from different parts of the world, I learned a lot. I just learned things I never would have learned, that I never would've been exposed to. You can eat catfish, I didn't even know that was a thing. I did not start riding bikes(motorcycles) until a friend in the service let me borrow his. I was 19.. maybe about 22 years old I guess. Guy lent me his bike and I had ridden dirt bikes but he let me borrow it. He was a Southern guy but you know he says "you can have it yourself! Take it back out!" It was very welcoming. The other shock of the military was just how many guys died. That is the other side of it. Not from war, neccesarily- from the stres of being in the military. It gets to some guys. A guy I knew well, my roomate, died. Took his own life. Got some bad news from home and took his own life. I don't know how we could have stopped that. We never really realized it was that bad. But I knew other guys that used drugs and died from that. Man he was tough but, he died .
CH: I was going to say, I understand that does happen to a lot of people in the service. I am not trying to draw any conclusions. Do you think especially during your era that there were some allienated soldiers, and from the uncoventional disrespect they had gotten during Vietnam and the years following?
JK: Yeah. War in general is a horrible event. And everyone knows it. Everybody suffers, everybody is damaged. You come home damaged. What you've seen, what you've heard, what you've learned. To fight a war, the results are horrible. Some are more effected, god forbid you watch somebody get hurt. Watch somebody get shot or otherwise, it is traumatic. War has the effect of guys getting shot at and they suddenly realize how vunerable they are. The become ectoplasm. They crawl in a foxhole. They get into a gunfight its an ism. You think they've got your back, cause in the military they always have your back. That's your creed. Never let your teamates down. Go unprepared. If a guy's frozen thinking "I am just going to die" and then his team gets hurt. There is a lot of that kind of stuff.
CH: Yeah I get that. sorry little bit of a left turn on you, getting away from the military stuff if that's alright. What were the politics like in the country at the time. I have heard it was a pretty crazy time, you being in the service but even earlier- as a high school student how did you feel about bif figures, if I asked you 50 years ago how you feel about say Kennedy or Nixon?
JK: Well, they were powerful guys, true leaders. Any guy like that is really going to enjoy power. So, pretty much from Kennedy on a lot of those guys were untrustworthy, it was particularly traumatic when Richard Nixon was implicated because while we knew everyone was doing it he got caught. I think one of the things that impacted me was Bobby Kennedy's assination. I remember where I was when John Kennedy his brother was shot. It was terrible, a total diaster. The thing about Bobby was he was coming up and someone said "no you can't be President an....and he was killed. And that was one of the more impactful ones. Nixon they wanted to impeach. The other thing that was a conflict at the time was Nixon and the government were not able to tell what happened to comrades. A large group that I ama still a part of had to do with POW(Prisoners of war) and MIA(Missing in Action). The number has dwindled over time as DNA testing has progressed, testing and verfication-you get families that so you can identify those you find. "Oh, ok this was Michael Harris we tested his blood or DNA and it matches his" so the number(of missing) has gone doen. But it is still around 200 guys. So when they do the memorials at the ball, there is one in DC and one in Philadelphia, they do what is called a low crawl when they announce the guys who are still missing. So they"ll say "Sargent Cameron Honovich US Navy, still missing." And "John Kittredge US Army still missing," very powerful stuff. And I saw it one time where they were at 1800 soldiers and now its 200, but there is still a lot of guys missing.
CH: Would you say there are a lot of similarities between say, you being a young man in the 60's in the service, and a young man who grew up today in the Afganistan or Iraq era?
JK: You know, I don't know a lot of people that were active in that, in fact just one. That is really my kids' age. That is a whole other generation. I think the soldiers now are better armed, better trained, they are more accepted at home, and there are resources for them to recover later on. But still you don't do soldering for yourself, it is not a get rich plan. It has to do with pride in your country. To do something for your nation's defense. But soldiers in those events have always been proud of it. They are doing it for the love of their country. And I feel bad because they are still not well taken care of, but they are better received. They are heroes when they get back. Soldiers from my generation, from the Vietnam era were considered bad people. They weren't given a whole lot of oppurtunities, unless they met up with other soldiers. Bikers for example. A lot of those came from groups of soldiers. They had no other place to go. They would band together. That is why you will find that a lot of motorcycle guys are retired veterans. That is their way of bonding. They haven't got skills, so they would roam and do things for money.
CH: Do you think that started with the Vietnam era?
JK: Well it actually dates back further. One of the earliest clubs was the Blue Comets. I wanna say they go back to the 30's. There was them and maybe more. Harley(Davidson) started in 1947. They made motorcycles for both military and civlian life. A lot of the military used them. They also used sidecars, things like that. The military did, for sending messengers- things like that. I always said that would've been a good career, I always liked the thrill of being chased (laughs).
CH: (Laughing) Fair enough.
JK: I certainly liked riding the motorcycles, that would have been something I was interested in doing in that time period. That kind of predates me, but it was a way to do things when you get out. Join a club, help you find some work. Go ride motorcycles, it became a passion. Of course those clubs grew from a genre of people with no sense of direction, no purpose, veterans. And those are some of the biggest rides. I have been on rides where they do what's called Rolling Thunder. That is a veterans thing, it is near the wall in DC. And that has had over a million participants through the years. They used to meet up at the Pentagon, it has a ton of extra parking. They have to do that. They have to have joining parking lots. So it got pretty crazy. And the vast majority of them, it was not specifically a military thing, were veterans. But that is where it came from. That is a powerful group. It has since become disjointed. Like all things, the leadership has started to dwindle. Absloute power creates absolute.... I don't know.
CH: Absolute power corrupts aboslutely? Something like that?
JK: Yeah I guess. What else youi got?
CH: That is just about it I think.
- Title:
- Interview with John Kittredge
- Date Created:
- 2024-10-07
- Description:
- The interview I conducted was with my uncle, John Kitredge, he was born in 1956 and grew up in the 1960's. He enlisted in the Army in 1974 just as Vietnam was wrapping up and spent 7 years in the service. The interview goes in a number of different directions, but primarily consists of discussions about Vietnam and the Military(particularly his expirences), racial issues through the lense of a young man in Los Angeles as he would have been, and general overview comments of his thoughts on the decade at large. The two speakers throughout are him(John Kittredge) reffered to in the transcript as JK and myself Cameron Honovich reffered to as CH. The interview was over John's life and the things he saw and experienced as a young military man in the 60's and 70's. He went over racial issues, dating and social life and his experience in the military primarily.
- Subjects:
- social issues Vietnam and the military racial issues general things
- Location:
- Moscow, ID- Philadelphia, PA(zoom)
- Latitude:
- 39.94291891
- Longitude:
- -75.14070231
- Type:
- text
- Format:
- record
- Preferred Citation:
- "Interview with John Kittredge ", The Long 1960s - 2024 Fall, Center for Digital Inquiry and Learning (CDIL)
- Reference Link:
- /thelong1960s/items/kittredge.html
- Rights:
- In copyright, educational use permitted. Educational use includes non-commercial reproduction of text and images in materials for teaching and research purposes. For other contexts beyond fair use, including digital reproduction, please contact the University of Idaho Library Special Collections and Archives Department at libspec@uidaho.edu. The University of Idaho Library is not liable for any violations of the law by users.
- Standardized Rights:
- http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-EDU/1.0/